Senior Center Committee
Meeting Minutes – March 4, 2008
Chair Matt Veno calls the meeting to order, and counts all members of the Committee present with the exception of Mayor Driscoll.
Matt Veno asks for motion to approve the minutes of the December. Teasie Riley Goggin moves approval, seconded by Frank Clocher.
Barbara Cleary moves for a correction on page 5. In the first paragraph, the last sentence reads as follows: “So, when we decided to look at private sites, it was a combination of that fact that none of these private sites looked ideal and that money was such a huge constraint.” Barbara moves to strike the first mention of “private” and replace it with public. The motion is seconded by John Walsh, and unanimously passed.
Chair Matt Veno then moves that we schedule the next several meetings. It is agreed that the next two meetings will be on Tuesday, March 25th at 6pm, and Wednesday, April 16 at 6pm.
Chair Matt Veno then calls for Working Group reports.
Paul Lanzikos reports for the public input working group about the meeting with Toby Carlin in January. Toby is the owner of Celebrations Gourmet catering in Beverly. She’s been in the business for 27 years and has run events in all major functions spots in the North Shore. The working group interviewed her, and asked her about the potential for use of part of a senior center if it were built with water views. She was enthusiastic about it, indicating that there aren’t many such facilities on North Shore with panoramic water views. Renting such a space would come at a premium, and it could be rented for weddings, showers, reunions and anniversary parties. Other facilities that would be comparable are Glenn Magna in Danvers which charges $4,000 a function, Castle Hill in
Ipswich which charges $8,000, Brooksby Farm, Misslewood in Beverly at Endicott College, which charges $8,000, the new site at Bradley Palmer State Park which charges $2,500-8,000. In Salem, there are many great locations, including Hamilton Hall, but many of them are limited in that in historic building rooms are often small and chopped up, whereas these types of functions need open spaces. There is a real need for facilities without hotel liquor service, as people are looking for places that can get their own license. The Town of Weston has a senior center used for functions such as this. If we get further down the road on this, we may make a site visit. Ideally, a room should hold 125-175 people at round tables and should include a dance floor. You don’t have to make it look like a hotel ballroom. Make sure you have panoramic views, set up the room so that it can be partitioned. You don’t need a full kitchen, just a
catering kitchen. You can also consider putting a gazebo on the grounds for picture taking.
The working group asked Toby what other places around have water views, places that might be competition? Tupper Hall and Misslewood, as well as the Elks Hall in Gloucester. There is a Sea view at Kelly’s Green, the House of Seven Gables and the Marioncourt Inn in Swampscott. Toby recommends that we develop exclusive relationships with some caterers, as it will lead to less wear and tear. You would also want to have a function or program manager on site, at least part time. It shouldn’t be done on the side of someone else’s job if it’s to be done properly. The functions would be on weekends and evenings mostly. This person would be in charge or marketing, coordinating, showing the facility as needed.
She liked the location under consideration a lot. If the architecture was such that one level could be dedicated to functions, that’d be best. Paul asked for others to add comments of ask questions.
Teasie Riley-Goggin: It also could be part of a senior center, or extension of senior center. Toby said she’d come to a public meeting if we look into this seriously.
Barbara Cleary: How often would a well-managed facility be rented out in a year?
Paul Lanzikos: One function on each weekend, probably more. She didn’t way what the likelihood would be though. It would be a year-round use.
John Walsh: What would the average income be?
Paul Lanzikos: It could be in the range of $4-5,000 per rental.
Pat Curtin: For liquor, usually the caterer gets license and handle the liability, so the city isn’t on the hook for that. High end rentals go by quality of location and view. She has no problem booking top functions like Endicott. You would have to put more money into it, yes, but the potential in the long term is worth consideration. Why not partner with ourselves on this? It could help pay for the facility, plus also be used for programming.
I think it’d be worth having her in, and doing visits, etc. You would have to have a minimum number of people at a function to make it work.
Paul Lanzikos: There is also not a lot of price sensitivity for some of these functions. People will pay a premium for good sites.
Mayor Kim Driscoll repots for the Finance Work Group, which met on January 19th. They looked at a number of issues, debt schedules, etc. It was school vacation week, so Rich Viscay couldn’t make it. But we tried to scratch below surface on financing. At the last full committee meeting we talked at length about need for private partnership, shared development. The estimates that we’re looking at for the public locations currently before us are $6-8M. It will be a challenge getting to a project that’s feasible for city.
At the last meeting we talked about not wanting to have a report that sits on the shelf. She recommends that this group put more information together on how it might be financed. Given the structural deficit of the city in the long term financial forecast, adding a significant amount to long term debt service isn’t a fiscal reality with a forecast of operating deficits.
The next package includes long term debt financing schedules showing various models of paying between $3m-5m, some amortized over 5 years, some incorporating measures to reduce cost (sale of building). Most of these models were prepared for the St. Joes proposal. This financing model had minimal impact on operating budget (all CDBG). This model – what we’re looking at now – doesn’t quite fit into that box.
The working group hadn’t yet had a chance to run new schedules – projected schedules.
Paul Lanzikos mentioned that given the challenges of fitting this in a schedule that works, the idea of a partner, reaching out to nonprofits, Salem State College, North Shore Medical Center, Adult Day Care of PACE. Paul had some dialogue with them about the possibility of tying the project into something that would produce revenue or have other synergies that might help make the project work.
Teasie Riley-Goggin: We also spoke about putting city offices in here (5 Broad St), and also about putting the proceeds of the sale of Szetela Lane into this project instead of putting it into general fun.
Mayor Kim Driscoll: Yes, we have spoken about options with this building. It would certainly need to be retrofitted. We’ll need to look at lots of options there. In terms of Szetela Lane, there are also a number of other needs, infrastructure demands, road repairs, capital needs – and we need to take all those other needs into account too.
Teasie Riley-Goggin reads from the CDBG report about what would be allowable, and then asks “Does that mean that we could get a loan of $5.562M to bond for senior center?”
Mayor Kim Driscoll: That would seriously gut CDBG. We don’t want to jeopardize important projects that CDBG current funds that are important across the city. Also, there are challenges of doing a function hall relative to allowable use to CDBG.
Tony Salvo asks Mayor Driscoll “when you were talking about St. Joes, how much were you planning to spend on senior center?”
Mayor Kim Driscoll: 4.75M
Tony Salvo: How much for this facility, $6M?
Mayor Kim Driscoll: Remember, an important part of the St. Joe’s model was $115,000 of tax revenue to offset payment of CDBG.
Tony Salvo: Has this place been appraised?
Mayor Kim Driscoll: No, the $1M in the model was more of a place holder. It could be more, could be less; in this market, it could be less.
Tony Salvo: Say it’s $1M, then we have Szetela Lane, around $800k, that brings it down quite a bit.
Barbara Cleary: That’s part of the question we raised at the meeting. The way I thought of it was this…there was a way to raise $4,750,000 for St. Joe’s. It also seemed from the meeting that we can’t count on $115,000 tax revenue from St. Joes, there will be some revenue there some day. I would like to see this table run with a lower amount of taxes and perhaps in the out years include some low number, and see what number we get from that. That will be our gap. It will likely be somewhere in the range of $1.5-2M, and then the question is “how do you fill that?” Then we can look at uses of building, might there be some ancillary uses that are complementary to a senior center, maybe the PACE program, Salem State College, North Shore Medical
Center. And, also Szetela lane is still part of it too.
Tony Salvo: I need something more simple than this table.
Teasie Riley-Goggin: Szetela Lane was appraised at $750,000. We were going to push for this to come in too, as quickly as possible. And we should look at an earmark of revenue from the St. Joes tax revenue. Since they haven’t build, is it possible to earmark revenue from another project to go toward this project too?
Mayor Kim Driscoll: Every year we rely on nearly $1M in new growth to balance the operating budget already. If we were to do that it would take needed new funding away from the operating budget. The St. Joe’s arrangement worked because it took revenue from the site to support development on that site.
Teasie Riley-Goggin : So that means that if POUA puts shovel in the ground – it will bring revenue in. Can we divert that to senior center?
Mayor Kim Driscoll: I’d like to see what we’re talking about for a proposal. That project is not started, not underway. We really couldn’t today count that for anything.
Barbara Cleary: But we did say that we could make some assumptions that are very conservative.
Mayor Kim Driscoll: I’m happy to put together a schedule, but that’s very preliminary
We need to identify funding challenges and find a way to fill them.
Joan Lovely: We have been talking about his bring a green building. Do we know where we can find information on what funding might be available for that? Maybe this can help. Perhaps we can have the renewable energy task force to see if they can provide information?
Kim Driscoll: They exist, but they’re usually more focused on supporting business development.
Frank Clocher: There must be some information from the Carleton school.
Matt Veno asks what the next steps of the working group are.
Mayor Kim Driscoll: Running schedules in real time fashion with a range of numbers.
Barbara Cleary: We’re looking at a 19,000 square foot facility. The architect suggested a $300 per square ft, which would be $6.2m. At $350 per square ft it would be $7.3M.
Denis Coleman: Will that change if we’re talking about a function hall?
Barbara Cleary: We haven’t looked at that, additional parking, any addition to facility. Revenue would have to at least cover additional cost plus the gap. We are planning on meeting again. We will also need to include in the model escalating costs going forward, if we’re not building until 2010. We’ll have to do some fine tuning to understand the gap, and look at revenue options.
Matt Veno: Is it going to be possible to have information by next meeting?
Barbara Cleary: I hope so…I’ll have to look at the dates and figure out what we can do.
Teasie Riley-Goggin: I have had visions for a community responding to seniors as they did for schools. Perhaps this committee can lead that. We haven’t done that for the seniors.
John Walsh: We can’t do that as a committee, but the Friends of the Council on Aging can.
Teasie Riley-Goggin: If the city can do it for schools, why can’t they do it for the seniors? Is there a way of doing that?
Mayor Kim Driscoll: That’s exactly what the friends is for, and with the rejuvenated group, this may be a great opportunity. We still need to focus on the gap, what do we need to get there?
Tony Salvo: The Mayor’s right: We need to get to the number.
John Walsh: Let’s talk about sites again. We still haven’t focused in on a site
Is it time to put the Ft. Lee site on the sub-list?
Tony Salvo: How many have not seen the Naumkeag site? Can we do a site visit at Naumkeag?
Tony Salvo: We’re talking about the same location. The architect already knows about both locations. Why can’t we get the whole committee to do down there?
Mayor Kim Driscoll: I don’t know it this is the time to raise another potential option. But there is another possibility worth considering. I tried to provide info to some committee members before the meeting. The committee has discussed a lot recently about collaborations. North Shore Medical Center is in dialogue with the owner of the Boston and Bridget site. It is still preliminary, but it would behoove us to consider talking about this as a possible location. This is a project that has already been approved by the planning board. The developer had wanted Registry of Deeds, but that didn’t pan out. The building would be 3 floors 25,000 square foot per floor, with a North Shore Medical Center lab and office space. So we’ve asked is there room
a new community life center at this site. And the answer was yes, there’s room. I can’t stress enough, this is still preliminary. It would include medical offices on the second floor. There is 22,000 square feet on first floor for program. The 3rd floor would be available for lease, perhaps PACE, adult day care or others would be interested. The permitted site has 233 parking spaces including 7 handicap spaces. The current plan has the building in the middle of the site, but they may like to move the new building down to the corner or Boston and Bridge. I happen to think it presents a lot of opportunity. I don’t want to discard other ideas, but I want us to explore this idea as well, get your input. I’m very excited about this possibility of partnering with North Shore Medical Center, the programmatic ability to work closely with the medical center and have doctors’ offices right in the
building. These would all be existing Salem doctors, already serving Salem’s seniors. Having this all in the same place as seniors has some appeal. I’m not sure what thoughts you have, or how it would fit in the process. This would be a lease…the Medical Center would be leasing the space, so the city would get tax revenue. It’s actually a similar model as St. Joes, with revenue from top floors supporting the first floor community life center use. It’s a little bit bigger with more parking, but financing mechanisms could be similar to St. Joes, and it could be doable with revenue on site.
Tony Salvo: I think it’s worthwhile pursuing, at least exploring the idea. How many offices? How many parking spaces would they take?
Mayor Kim Driscoll: We haven’t had that discussion at all yet.
John Walsh: I think it’s worth looking at in parallel nature.
Joan Lovely: I wanted to add something. One of the things that should be part of discussion is to create some outdoor space. One of the benefits of the Willows locations is the outdoor activities. Gloucester has a beautiful building, but no outdoor space. I think this should be a parallel consideration. Frankly this is coming down to what we can afford. As we explore funding options, we’d like to see a facility on the water. But something like this shouldn’t be dismissed right now.
John Walsh: On our private property list, this was the A site of all we looked at.
Denis Coleman: We do have the Canal park as well, for outdoor walking.
John Walsh: It’s also close to public housing up on Boston Street.
Paul Lanzikos: What’s intriguing about this site is that if this helps get that site developed, it really does something for the whole community, redevelopment of this empty lot which is not quite the vista to the city you would want. The City of Cambridge has something similar too, where they have their Health and Human Services offices in with the senior center. Also, thinking in terms of top floor, adult day health would be a good match. Also PACE people weren’t terribly excited about the Willows site, but this site is more central and accessible for them. As I’m thinking about this, we could get the soon-to-be university to think about using this as a training site for clinicians, nurses, social workers, with hands-on training for workers. I think this has a lot to
look at, it presents an interesting alternative. I’d really want o explore this.
Denis Coleman: Another thing to consider is that one of the major costs or running services for seniors, nearly half of operating costs in Peabody, is transportation to doctors’ offices. Combining this here presents an opportunity to reduce operating costs of the center.
Paul Lanzikos: There may also be an opportunity to create some rooftop amenities.
Tony Salvo moves that we ask the audience how they feel about it, seconded by Matt Veno, which carries unanimously.
Nancy M. Riley, 24 Webb Street
I’m concerned that it would reduce people’s choice of doctors. You would have to still provide some transportation for those who don’t have their doctors in the building.
Sylvani Flynn, 5 Oak Street
I think this would be a step up from St. Joes, but I still would love to be on the water.
Darrow Lebovici, 122 Federal Street
Many in that neighborhood want to get a development that is compliant with the Master Plan. This set of developers (Boston/Bridge) worked hard to come up with a plan that was compliant and could be built. As a result, it was permitted quickly. I think that something like this, within bonds of the plan, would be accepted and enthusiastically embraced. It meets overall idea of the master plan, to get commercial use and community activity there. The original plan for this lot on the corner was not permitted, because they couldn’t get a tenant. If parking became an issue, I’d encourage anyone involved to talk with St. James which has an open lot and could use the money. This could fulfill our hopes and expectations for this area. I don’t want it to derail your
process, but I would encourage you to include it in your work.
Nancy Olbreck, 107 Bridge St
I think it’s a smart idea to incorporate this, given the city’s financial crunch. Judging by how the hospital works, they’d be providing lots of shuttles to facilities too, to and from the hospital, cancer center, etc. It wouldn’t force people to go to doctors in the area. I have a question. Isn’t North Shore part of Partners group? So there are lots of doctors in that group too. I think it’d be a wonderful opportunity for the City to explore. It can’t do any harm. Yes, I’d love to be on water. But if we can’t have that, this might be the best alternative.
Joan Sweeny, 22 Silver St
I think I see a ray of light on this. I want to express the importance for initial planning. Support our seniors please, don’t let us go, this might be the solution.
Nancy Riley, 24 Webb Street
In terms of owning the first floor, how long is the lease above?
It would be a real problem if you end up having an empty building above you.
Paul Lanzikos: Physicians like to be near facilities they’re practicing in. They’re interested in the proximity to the hospital which isn’t going anywhere. In a Brooklyn site I was involved in, in the first floor there were lots of retail activities that were attractive to seniors. There is also the potential on the 3rd floor for other services, such as dentistry. North Shore Elder Services also may be looking for satellite offices for case managers. They might be interested in renting space too.
Barbara Cleary: I definitely think it’s worth exploring. I’d like to suggest that we use the old site analysis criteria to analyze this site too. I think we should do that same analysis and due diligence on this. Is it possible to get pdfs of the site plan? People should go take a look at it. Think about what you might want to change about the site plan (wider sidewalk?) Access to park, crosswalk?
Pat Curtin: I have a question for Mayor. Do you have a sense of their time frame or how realistic this is to happen? Who’s the developer? Do they want us to purchase?
Mayor Kim Driscoll – North Shore Medical Center’s interest is there, but this is still very preliminary. David Massey is the developer, and there definitely is interest in having the city purchase it.
Tony Salvo: I think it’s a great idea.
Mayor Kim Driscoll: I want to get more information on what the process might look like, and add this to the additional things that we’re working on.
Tony Salvo: Can we have someone come talk with us from the developers?
Mayor Kim Driscoll: At the appropriate time, we can do that. There might need to be some things that need to get worked out.
John Walsh: Site committee should be involved with you.
Tony Salvo: I move that we make a vote of confidence to explore the feasibility of this proposal (Boston/Bridge – 401 Bridge), which is seconded by Matt Veno, and passes unanimously.
Paul Lanzikos: Also, we don’t have to have the entire 22,000 square feet. If we want, a piece of this can be carved out for other uses, perhaps retail use.
Tony Salvo: We should include this site (Boston/Bridge) with other sites on the preferred list.
John Walsh: We have to discuss date for public meeting.
Barbara Cleary: Let’s assess that at the next meeting.
Matt Veno calls for public comment.
Councillor Steven Pinto
55 Columbus Avenue
I want to applaud the mayor. This should be something we should look at. I like it. It’s worth exploring.
No further public comment
Teasie Riley-Goggin moves for adjournment, which is seconded by Frank Clocher, and passes unanimously.
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